Politically Incorrect 8/18/00
Guests on this program were:
William Baldwin
Al Franken
Joe Rogers
Melanie Morgan
Bill: Well, convention season has come and gone. And if you're still confused, the Democrats are the conservative family values party, and the Republicans are the ones who love Mexican. [ Laughter ] [ Cheers and applause ] Now some of you may remember that the '96 conventions, we put our good friends Al Franken and Arianna Huffington into bed together for a liberal versus conservative debate we called "Strange Bedfellows." We got a got a lot of laughs, some great press and one hell of a laundry bill. [ Laughter ] Take a look, from 1996.
Arianna: The Democratic Party has been castrated. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] Bill: Well, a lot can change in four years. So let's check back in with our strange bedfellows, Al and Arianna. Here they are. [ Cheers and applause ]
Al Good evening. I'm Al Franken and with me is beautiful but evil Arianna Huffington. [ Laughter ]
Arianna: That's not fair, Al. I'm not evil anymore. I've changed.
Al You mean you'll finally have sex with me? [ Laughter ]
Arianna: No. That much change is not possible. [ Laughter ] We are here to talk about my shadow convention agenda and the corrupting influence of money in politics.
Al: Well, that's certainly something you know something about. [ Laughter ]
Arianna: That's not fair. That was ages ago. Before I saw the light.
Al: Before you met me.
Arianna: Exactly. You know, Al, in many ways, you are responsible for my transformation.
Al: Really?
Arianna: Mm-hmm. It was, I think, a combination of just your passion for social justice and the sheer raw energy of your charisma. [ Laughter ]
Al: That's what did it?
Arianna: Uh-huh. Yes, that's why it is so sad and such a shame now to see you for what you've become, a tool for the establishment, a shield for Al Gore and the status quo.
Al: No, Arianna, I see your point.
Arianna: You do?
Al: Yes. You know, when I was over at the shadow convention, watching you with all those people raging against the machine -- [ Laughter ] -- It made me realize that there really is no difference between the two big corporate parties.
Arianna: Al.
Al: I mean --
Arianna: It makes me so hot to hear you say that. [ Laughter ] [ Cheers and applause ]
Al: I mean, the fund-raising here and the soft money the Democrats raised, I mean, it was obscene.
Arianna: Oh, Al, it really was.
Al: Does that mean I can have some sugar?
Arianna: No, no sugar.
Al: Damn. Well in that case, go, Al, go! [ Cheers and applause ] Yeah!
Arianna: Precisely. Go, Al, go. Go to sleep. [ Audience aws ] [ Applause ] [ Cheers and applause ] Panel Discussion
Bill: All righty, let us meet our panel. She is one half of "The Lee Rogers Show" and "Melanie Morgan." From San Francisco's KSFOAM, Melanie Morgan. [ Applause ] Melanie, how're you doing? Good to see you. He's the Lieutenant Governor of the state of Colorado. Joe Rogers. Joe. [ Applause ] Joe: Good to be with you, Bill.
Bill: Glad to have you here, Joe. He's a big shot movie star and the president of the creative coalition. William Baldwin is right over here. [ Cheers and applause ]
William: Thanks for having me back.
Bill: oh, of course. Thanks for being here. And a very, very funny comedian. As you just saw, a talented actor, and the author of the book "Why Not Me," our pal Al Franken. [ Cheers and applause ]
Al: Oh, man.
Bill: that was a quick change for you, wasn't it, al?
Al: Wow. Whew.
Bill: So, we're all coming down from the convention.
William: Al, you're fly.
Al: Oh. [ Laughter ]
Bill: right, al.
Al: Every time I'm with arianna. [ Laughter ]
Bill: Let's watch this clip. From last night's convention, because I thought this was very interesting. This is Tipper introducing Al, and then, he comes up on the stage and wow! [ Cheers and applause ] I am not a prude, but I am not a liar either. And to me, that kiss said, "Hey, you know what? This marriage ain't like the last guy's marriage. I actually do my wife." [ Laughter ] [ Cheers and applause ]
Melanie: I was screaming at the television set, "Get a hotel room!" Oh, it just was --
Al: How long have you been married?
Melanie: 11 years.
Al: Yeah, I've been married 25 years. [ Cheers and applause ] And I'm still hot for my wife. And I know the Gores. And they are very, very affectionate and a very sexy couple.
Melanie: Do we need to know this?
William: This is so sad.
Bill: that we're analyzing this?
William: This is so pathetic.
William: Number one, that we're talking about this. And number two, what's wrong with this country? You go to Europe, and you see fashion magazines that have nudity in the advertising, and it's "A nude body is a work of art" and it's an object of beauty, and it's celebrated -- nudity and sex. And in America, they kiss on television and everybody freaks out? Joe: At end of the day, we all know that this is all scripted. At the end of the day, they had to present a message that essentially said "I'm different from Bill Clinton. I'm my own man." Part of the evidence to that is that he says, "I'm with my own wife."
Bill: But that's what bothers me, is that they feel the need to do that. I kept saying last week, they took the Monica bait. The Republicans kept trying to say, "You know, we'll never be able to think of Gore without thinking of Clinton." And he took the bait. That's why he put holy man Joe Lieberman on the ticket.
William: I felt he put Joe Lieberman on the ticket for a number of reasons. He's qualified. He's an excellent politician. And he's the one that struck the greatest fear in the hearts of the Republicans.
Melanie: And he's extremely charismatic, too, right, Billy?
William: Does that have to matter?
Melanie: Yeah, in today's politics, it does.
Al: Yeah, compared to Cheney, I'll admit that he doesn't -- Cheney was against banning cop-killer bullets. Now, Bush -- I know.
Melanie: That is not true.
Al: Oh, he voted against it. He voted against it.
Melanie: Yeah, he's going to say, "Let's go out and have cop-killer --"
William: He voted against it. What does that mean? He's for it? [ Laughter ]
Bill: One of a handful. [ Cheers and applause ]
Al: He voted against Headstart. Joe: But the end of the day, when you are selecting a president, you're making a decision about the person that you trust to make good decisions on behalf of the nation.
Al: Yeah, exactly.
Bill: That's my point, is that they don't trust Al Gore because somehow the Republicans have tied him to that evil man who likes sex. [ Laughter ] And that's why he had to pretend to kiss his wife.
William: That's a fallacy. That's a fallacy. Right now -- respond quick. Bill Clinton is allowed to run for re-election right now, what happens?
Bill: oh, he wins.
Al: He wins.
Bill: totally. [ Cheers and applause ] We have such a big problem. Al Gore's Vice Presidential choice should have been Bill Clinton. [ Laughter ] Joe: I'm not convinced that that would happen.
Bill: And that's why I said they took the bait. I didn't say they did the right thing. I said they are taking the Republican bait.
William: The media has created a lot of this, so put a lot of pressure -- the fact that the Vice President had to go on television last night and say "I'm my own man" really --
Melanie: Sounds like he was a phony. Because it sounds like he wasn't his own man before.
William: No, because the way the media and the Republicans are framing this, is two things, and he addressed both of them. "I may not be exciting and dynamic," and "I'm my own man." And I was listening to the radio last night, I was listening to NPR, and they were talking about Gore's environmental record. And some environmentals were complaining that he did a lot, but not enough. And others said, no, he did do a lot. But the media always frame it as if it's the boring stiff guy against the folksy homespun guy.
Melanie: I can tell you about Gore's environmental record, and it ain't no great shape.
William: You don't need to tell me about anything.
Melanie: I can tell you about -- [ Laughter ] [ Applause ]
Bill: I need to take a commercial. [ Cheers and applause ] --- [ Cheers and applause ]
Bill: All right. Among the things we were arguing about was Dick Cheney. I know you're gonna pursue that after the show about his voting record. [ Laughter ]
Al: I just asked Melanie about that vote, about the cop-killer vote. She had really no good answer.
Melanie: Yes, I did. You just couldn't hear me. What I was saying was that that vote was part of a larger appropriations bill vote.
William: But that was part of the bill.
Melanie: That happens all of the time. Ask Al Gore about --
William: You have to vote your conscience.
Al: I don't think that was part of a larger --
Melanie: It was part of a larger appropriations bill.
William: Even if it was, Al, what's the difference?
Al: Well, sometimes in large -- Joe: But it really doesn't work that way, Bill. You've got items that are included in bills all the time -- [ Speaking at once ]
Bill: By the way --
Joe: You might support it, you might not support it.
Bill: -- If you want to bring up that subject, George Bush made his stand in New York state in the primaries against John McCain, saying that John McCain was basically soft on breast cancer funding. And that's because there was a bill -- it's exactly what you guys are talking about. There was a bill that had some breast cancer funding that had a lot of other pork in it, and that's why McCain voted against it. So it works both way.
Al: But the armor-piercing bullet one was not on an appropriations bill.
Bill: Well, we don't know that. What I was going to ask about, your brother was here the other day. He was saying that Dick Cheney was a war profiteer. I think that's interesting, because Dick Cheney, of course, was Secretary of Defense during the Gulf War. And then, he becomes President of this company Halliburton. Okay, that's the company that got the contract to clean up Kuwait after the war. And his net worth went from something like a couple hundred thousand dollars to tens and tens of millions of dollars.
Joe: Bill, it was one of several companies. There were many companies that did business in Kuwait.
Bill: Ah, so -- [ Laughter ] So there are other war profiteers.
Al: Joe, you're right. You rest your case. [ Laughter ]
Joe: Wait a minute. But hang on a second, Bill.
William: It smacks, to me -- I don't know if it's a big ethical question. It certainly is a conflict of interest. It's almost like insider trading information here.
Bill: Yeah.
William: He was at an unfair advantage to get that job because of his position in government.
Joe: Wait a minute. You have a Secretary of Defense. He leaves public life, he goes into private life. He works for a great company. He got into the business of helping to clean up a war in the Saddam Hussein --
Bill: A war that he was prosecuting.
Joe: Wait a minute. We did the right thing in the context of that war. We defeated the fourth largest Army in the world.
William: If he wasn't the secretary --
Bill: Actually, we let the fourth largest Army get away. [ Cheers and applause ]
Joe: We defeated Saddam Hussein.
Bill: no we did not. Saddam Hussein is still in power. That's not defeating. We defeated Hitler. He died in a bunker. [ Laughter ]
Melanie: Bill, let me reframe the question this way. Is it any more inappropriate for say George Stephanopoulos to go to work for ABC with all of his media contacts that he had there and make a couple million dollars?
William: He's not running for Vice President. He didn't make $30 million.
Melanie: It's the same principle. They left government and went to work in private practice --
William: No, the principle is the dollar figure that --
Melanie: -- Because of their contacts that they got at the White House.
Bill: contacts in war, you know?
William: What I think is interesting is that this is the guy with a $30 million golden parachute along with the president who is going to vote down raising the minimum wage. Okay? And I think that's very interesting. [ Cheers and applause ]
Joe: I have to respond.
William: He's got his $30 million golden parachute.
Joe: Bill, you've been a Democratic Party activist for years. But let's point out the hypocrisy here. Robert Rubin was the Treasury Secretary, made $30 million or $40 million when he left his company to join the Treasury Department, flies around in a private chartered jet that he pays for out of his expense or maybe even with company dollars. I don't know what happened in that regard. He leaves the Treasury, goes back to making millions and millions of dollars.
Al: There's a big difference here, Joe.
Joe: Far more than Cheney made.
Al: You're on very thin ground. He made for himself over $100 million as head of Goldman Sachs before.
Joe: But then when he leaves Goldman Sachs, comes back into the private practice, makes even more money.
William: That's different.
Al: The point is, he didn't use his public service as a way to get the job. [ Speaking at once ]
Bill: He left big money to go into government, where there's small money. This guy used government to get -- [ Applause ]
Al: He went from tens of millions of dollars a day to a government salary. Now, I think it's okay for Cheney to do what he did, to go back to Halliburton. What I don't think is okay is for him to take this parachute, which includes stock options -- and if he's Vice President of the United States, and he has stock options, that means he has interests in the price of Halliburton stock. [ Applause ]
Melanie: Wait a minute. How about Al Gore and the millions of dollars of Occidental Petroleum stock that he owns? Are you going to apply the same standard to him?
Al: How many millions of dollars of Occidental stock?
Melanie: 1 million --
Al: You just said millions of dollars.
Melanie: I meant millions of shares that total $1 million of Occidental Petroleum.
Al: That Al Gore owns?
Melanie: Yeah, Al Gore currently has in blind trust.
Joe: But let me tell you why none of this is an issue though. None of this is an issue because you've had Cheney who has specifically said if there is any even appearance of conflict of interest, he will make sure he takes care of it so there isn't. You've got a guy that was in private life --
William: -- Minimum wage --
Joe: Wait a minute. Hang on a second. But you got a guy that was in private life. He had been out of the private life for four or five years making money, yeah. Now, he's about to get back into public life, and he's saying "We're going to make sure we don't have a conflict." What more can you ask him?
Al: In this job as head of Halliburton, he went to the Middle East, last year, came back, announced to his board, "Good news, good news, the OPEC countries are going to cut production. Oil prices are going to go up. Good news, board." Right? He did that.
Joe: You know, but if this is the best issue that you guys have, come on.
Melanie: Yeah. [ Speaking at once ]
William: This happens to be what we're talking about right now. He presented a question, and we're answering it. [ Speaking at once ]
Bill: We have to take a commercial. [ Cheers and applause ] --- Join us next week on "Politically Incorrect," when Bill's guests will include -- Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader. The "West Wing's" John Spencer. From "Son of the Beach" Tim Stack. And "Spin City's" Beth Littleford. [ Applause ]
Bill: Now that both conventions are over and the true arguing has begun, let's talk about who had the best convention, the best line. Someone wrote in "New York" magazine the other day, the worst Bush line they said was -- Bush said, "Does anybody, Republican or Democrat, seriously believe that under Mr. Gore the next four years will be any different from the last eight?" [ Laughter ]
Joe: I thought that was a great line.
William: The last eight have been pretty -- good.
Bill: that's his point, was that maybe it wasn't so bright of Bush to say that.
William: To highlight the successes of Clinton and Gore.
Melanie: My favorite line of the Democratic convention though was Jesse Jackson trying to start some chant by saying, "Stay out the Bushes."
Bill: But he's not running for nothin'. [ Laughter ]
Melanie: I know, but you were asking for great lines. [ Scattered applause ]
Bill: What about this one? Does this scare anybody when they say, "Does anyone seriously believe that under Mr. Gore the next four years will be any different from the last eight?" Don't most people go, "Yeah, that's good because Gore is -- he loves his wife, and so we're not gonna have the you-know-what problem." Other than that, I don't see how that's an advertisement.
Joe: But, Bill, we're missing the point. There's a different sense that's running throughout the country. And I'm in Colorado, and I can only tell you there's a different sense, a different mood in the nation. We're ready for a different era of leadership, a fresh start. Clinton era, eight years of Clinton/Gore. Now, a transition to Bush/Cheney.
Al: Back to Bush/Cheney.
Joe: No, forward. It's a fresh start. You've got a new leadership. Prosperity with a purpose.
Al: Joe, you're a Republican, an African-American Republican office holder.
Joe: Absolutely.
Al: Let me guess. Did you get to speak at the Republican convention? [ Cheers and applause ]
Joe: You know what? Al, I can only tell you -- you know what? Al, here's what amazes me. I've got to hit the point, because I've heard you all criticize. That Republican convention reflected our party not in terms of its present or its past, but in terms of its future.
William: So you're going to become the Democratic Party? [ Laughter ]
Joe: Bill, for years, you all have talked about the need for civil rights, the need for expansion of African-American presence in both parties.
William: I was at the Republican convention --
Melanie: And we deeply resent that.
Joe: -- And we are seeking to do that now, because that makes sense for America.
William: I was at the Republican convention. I've been to many Republican conventions, and the thing that troubled me is that we got two bumps because we had two Democratic conventions. When you're talking about the Republican commitment to AIDS, the Republican commitment to affirmative action, the Republican commitment to stop building prisons. When you have -- I get the inclusion thing --
Al: Well, that was Colin Powell talking.
William: No, that wasn't all Colin Powell.
Joe: Bill, the Republican commitment on education. The Republican commitment on family. The Republican commitment on reducing --
William: I'm not talking about that.
Joe: The Republican commitment on Social Security.
Bill: He's talking about Chaka Khan. Let's get back to that. [ Laughter ]
Melanie: Let's talk about education.
William: I know the Republicans wanted to do -- they were very successful. They did the right thing. We didn't want Buchanan. We didn't want the abortion playing controversy. Everybody take the poison pill. Take one for the team.
Joe: What's wrong with that?
Melanie: Every time. If we're unified, there's headlines in "The New York Times."
William: Why am I criticizing you? I'll tell you why I'm criticizing you, I'll tell you exactly why. Because for you to go for this inclusion thing --
Joe: What's wrong with inclusion?
William: I tell you what, you're more inclusive than you ever were before. It's great that you want to be more inclusive. For you to reach to the point of fraud on these issues --
Joe: Ah! [ Applause ] Wait a minute.
William: Let me finish. You sold the Republican Party at that convention with the -- in the areas that I just highlighted, it's in direct contrast with the platform and the ideology of the party for the last 30 years. [ Cheers and applause ]
Bill: I have to take a commercial. [ Cheers and applause ] --- [ Applause ]
Bill: All right, folks. We had a fun convention week. Hope you enjoyed it. Monday, we have Ralph Nader. Your brother, very much against Ralph Nader, says a vote for Ralph Nader's a vote for Bush.
Melanie: Go Ralph.
Bill: We invited him to come Monday and to challenge Ralph Nader, he couldn't make it. If you'd like to come back Monday and take on Ralph Nader, I offer that platform to you, Mr. Gladiator.