Al Franken at the National Press Club, February 28, 2002 February 28, 2002, Thursday SECTION: PRESS CONFERENCE OR SPEECH LENGTH: 6941 words HEADLINE: NATIONAL PRESS CLUB LUNCHEON WITH AL FRANKEN, COMEDIAN AND AUTHOR MODERATOR: JOHN AUBUCHON, PRESIDENT OF NATIONAL PRESS CLUB LOCATION: NATIONAL PRESS CLUB, WASHINGTON, D.C. BODY: MR. AUBUCHON: Good afternoon, and welcome to the National Press Club. My name is John Aubuchon. I am senior correspondent for Maryland Public Television and president of the National Press Club. I'd like to welcome club members and their guests, as well as those of you watching on C-SPAN or listening to this program on National Public Radio. The video archive of today's luncheon is provided by Connect Live, and is available through the National Press Club website at press.org. National Press Club luncheons are also carried live by many sites on the World Wide Web. Press Club members also may access transcripts of our luncheons at our website. Non- members may purchase transcripts, audio and videotapes by calling 1- 888-343-1940. Before introducing our head table, I'd like to remind our members of future speakers. On March 5th, Dr. Henry Kissinger, a former secretary of state, will be our guest at the National Press Club for a speakers breakfast. On March 15th, Dr. Dieter Zetsche, the president and CEO of the Chrysler Group of Daimler Chrysler Corporation. On March 19th, James Ziglar, commissioner, Immigration and Naturalization Service, will address the National Press Club. If you have any questions for our speaker, please write them on the cards provided at your table and pass them up to me. I'll ask as many as time permits. I would now like to introduce our head table guests and ask them to stand briefly as their names are called. Please hold your applause until all head table guests are introduced. From your right, my left, Angela Greyling (sp) King (sp), Small Newspaper Group, and she is a member of the NPC Young Members Committee; Barbara Rehm of the American Banker; Greg Gordon of McClatchy Newspapers; Jonathan Salant, Associated Press, and is chairman of the National Press Club board of governors; Morris Williams, board member of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, and a guest of our speaker; Jane Podesta, People Magazine; John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition and a guest of our speaker. On my right is Frank Aukofer, chairman of the National Press Club Speakers Committee and a former NPC president. Passing by our speaker for just a moment, Rick Dunham, Business Week correspondent and the National Press Club treasurer. Rick also organized today's luncheon. Thank you, Rick. Jennifer Lazlo (sp) Mesrahai (sp), president of Lazlo (sp) and Associates, a guest of our speaker; Tony Pugh of Knight-Ridder Newspapers; April Benefield (sp), ABC producer; Marissa Charbonneau (sp), CBN White House Correspondent; Doug Harbrecht, Business Week Online, and another former NPC president; and finally, NPC member Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune. (Applause.) Al Franken began his career as a satirist early. While a second grader in Minneapolis -- (laughter) -- Franken watched in horror as the girls in his class performed and insipid show called "I'm a little teapot." Well, he couldn't leave that alone. Young Al wrote a scathing parody. He convinced the other boys to dress in drag and they staged it. The girls were in tears, and Franken's rise to fame and fortune had begun. (Laughter.) As one of America's greatest satirists and most perceptive political commentators, Al Franken has made us laugh and think for more than a quarter century. After graduating from Harvard University in 1973, the young comic was a vital part of the early success of Saturday Night live. He was a writer, performer, and producer. He received four Emmy awards for his writing on the show, a fifth for producing. Political reporters cherish some of his impersonations of presidential candidates, including his irreverent Reverend Pat Robertson, his earnest bow-tied Senator Paul Simon, his churlish Paul Tsongas. But he's perhaps best known for creating the character Stuart Smalley, the new-age cable TV host and self-help guru who managed to land those famous and infamous guests, ranging from Michael Jordan to John Bobbitt -- remember him -- (laughter) -- played by Mike Meyers. The Smalley persona helped launch Franken's career as a best-selling author. In 1982, he published, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me." Daily Affirmations by Stuart Smalley. It was a spoof of 12-step programs that became a New York Times bestseller. It spawned a 1995 film, Stuart Saves His Family, but as Franken explains on his unofficial Internet homepage, when a movie loses 15 million bucks, studios don't exactly break down your door to make a sequel. (Laughter.) MR. AL FRANKEN: I've got to get that off my website. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: But, he didn't cry over spilled milk. Early in the '96 presidential season, his second book, "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot and Other Observations," was published. (Laughter and applause.) His words. It became required reading on the campaign trail and in homes around the country apparently, judging by its eight months on the New York Times bestseller list. A year later, he won a Grammy award for the best spoken album for, you guessed it, "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot." He followed his Limbaugh period with a 1999 political spoof entitled, "Why not me? The inside story of the making and unmaking of the Franken presidency." (Laughter.) You might say the man has a deep interest in politics. He was a commentator for CNN during the 1988 Democratic national convention, offering viewers a small change of pace from Mike Dukakis. He covered the '92 and '96 campaigns for Comedy Central. Many reporters on the campaign trail thought he asked the best questions out there. They remember his tough question of Ross Perot, for example, which had other reporters in stitches. He's also remembered inside the Beltway for his appearances with presidents. He was twice the featured speaker at White House Correspondents Association dinners, and he swore in National Press Club president, Doug Harbrecht in 1998. Franken ordered Harbrecht to place his hand on a copy of Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass." Does that ring any bells for anyone? (Laughter.) That was the book that was a romantic gift from Monica Lewinsky to another president. (Laughter.) Franken is a long-time Democrat. He became interested in the problem of predatory -- this is serious -- he became interested in the problem of predatory lending when he met John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition in Iowa several years ago. Franken was covering a focus group organized by NCRC -- for the NCRC by Democratic pollster, Jennifer Lazlo (sp) Mesrahai (sp) and Republican pollster, Frank Luntz (sp), under a Ford Foundation grant to look at fair lending. Following the focus group, they repaired to a local watering hole and discussed the economic justice matters more fully. (Laughter.) Since then, they've stayed in close contact, and Mr. Franken spoke at their annual conference in Washington for the past two years. The issue of predatory lending gets precious little attention in the national media, although community groups say it's a major problem across the country. Activists say that unscrupulous lenders in low- income communities trap borrowers in unfair loan arrangements that end up costing people their homes, businesses, savings. But whether his topic is serious or satire, Franken is one of the most perceptive analysts of American politics around. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Al Franken. (Applause.) MR. FRANKEN: Thank you, John, for that -- it was overly kind. I'm going to speak today a little bit about predatory lending because I know a little bit about it. (Laughter.) I know it's exploitive and targeted at certain communities. Guess which ones? Poor, minorities, and women -- and also the elderly. I'm not going to bore you with numbers. My friends at the National Community Reinvestment Coalition will do that for me later. (Laughter.) Especially if you want to ask questions of its president, John Taylor, after I speak. (Laughter.) As John Aubuchon said, I met John Taylor a couple of years and have publicly supported the NCRC since. I know that it's probably not a good idea for a comedian, especially a satirist, to support a public policy group or a politician. This is something I learned only too well years ago when I did a fundraiser for Pol Pot. (Laughter.) A few years later I saw "The Killing Fields," and I've got to tell you, I just felt like a schmuck. (Laughter.) The NCRC is basically a watchdog group that makes sure that bank comply with CRA -- the Community Reinvestment Act, which was passed in 1977. Just to give you some background, the Community Reinvestment Act was established as a mechanism to ensure that banks would lend money to traditionally under-served communities -- again, the poor, women and minorities -- and it's been a huge success. Here's the mechanism. Banks are required to get CRA certification in order to acquire other banks and to do mergers, and they don't get their CRA certification unless they went to these traditionally under-served communities and, you know, give them mortgages and business loans. And over the past 25 years, because of CRA, banks have been doing just this, and it has worked. Loans made under CRA to these communities have the same default rate as all other loans. It's been good for everybody, CRA has. It's increased home ownership and small business ownership in these communities. And serious students of this, of CRA, believe that it's had a significant role in lowering crime rates in our cities. And CRA has enjoyed bipartisan support in Congress for years. Now, the first time I met our now President Bush, it was August of 1999, and he was campaigning in Iowa. And at the time, Senator Phil Gramm, husband of Enron board member Wendy Gramm -- (laughter) -- who flunked the third, seventh and ninth grades -- (laughter) -- was as chairman of the banking committee attempting to gut CRA in the Bank Modernization Act. But, by the way, the first time I ever heard Gramm speak, and this is -- this is off point -- he said, I heard him on the stump, he said to the NRA, "I own more guns than I need, but less guns than I want." (Laughter.) And I remember thinking to myself, he and I are very different. (Laughter.) So, it's August of 1999, and I'm in Iowa -- Indianola, Iowa -- covering the Republican straw poll for George Magazine, and I meet George W. Bush, and he was very nice. And as you remember, at that time his whole thing was compassionate conservatism. So, I go up to him and I say, "Wouldn't you agree that CRA is like the perfect example of compassionate conservatism?" And he says, "Yes." And, uh -- (laughter) -- from the look in his eye it occurred to me that maybe he didn't know what I was talking about. (Laughter.) And, so I said, "I'm sorry, you know what CRA is?" And he said, "Yes." (Laughter.) And again I was not convinced that he actually knew what it was. So, I was kind of going to ask him, "Oh yeah, what is it?" (Laughter.) Except that I was brought up not to do stuff like that. (Laughter.) So I said -- instead I said, "Well, then as you know, CRA ensures that banks lend money to traditionally under-served communities, and how do you feel about your state senator, Senator Gramm, attempting to gut CRA in the banking committee?" And he said, "I understand that a compromise has been reached." Which, it hadn't. (Laughter.) You know, at that point they are at total loggerheads on this issue and it was threatening to blow up the whole bill, and a month later -- it was like late November when an actual agreement was reached, but I thought to myself, you know, why should the governor of Texas know what's happening in the Senate Banking Committee. (Laughter.) Anyway, my topic today, predatory lending -- again, many of you probably think I'm just a comedian supporting a cause that I don't know anything about. Not so. And to prove it, I've taken the liberty of preparing some questions and answers -- (laughter) -- for John Aubuchon and myself -- John, if you'd step back up here and -- John Aubuchon, everyone, president of the Press Club. (Applause.) MR. AUBUCHON: Al, we don't -- we don't do this. We follow protocol. We save the questions for after your remarks -- MR. FRANKEN: Right. MR. AUBUCHON: -- questions from the audience -- MR. FRANKEN: Now, right here -- right here where I have John -- (laughter) -- that's for you. And I have my answers written down. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Okay, Al. (READING QUESTIONS PREPARED BY MR. FRANKEN) There seems to be some confusion in some circles as to the definition of predatory lending, as distinguished from sub-prime lending. Could you clear it up for us? (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: I'm glad you asked me that question. (Laughter.) Predatory lending is a subset of sub-prime lending. A sub-prime loan is a loan to a borrower with less than perfect credit. In order to compensate for the added risk associated with sub-prime loans, lending institutions charge higher interest rates. MR. AUBUCHON: And a predatory loan? (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: I was getting to that. (Laughter.) A predatory loan is an unsuitable loan designed to exploit vulnerable and unsophisticated borrowers. They may charge more in interest fees than is required to cover the added risk of lending to borrowers with credit imperfections, or contain abusive terms that trap the borrower. Next question. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: As I understand it, there is substantial evidence that sub-prime borrowers in minority communities experience price discrimination. MR. FRANKEN: That's not even a question. (Laughter.) But I think I know what you're trying to ask. (Laughter.) A HUD study shows that residents of African-American neighborhoods are five times as likely to receive sub-prime loans as residents of white neighborhoods. MR. AUBUCHON: You certainly know your subject matter. (Laughter.) Allow me to congratulate you. So many of our guests come here and don't seem to be familiar with the subject they're speaking about. (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: That's very kind of you. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Never in the history of the Press Club -- (laughter) -- have we had a celebrity guest who spoke so articulately about his cause, who is so knowledgeable about the nuances of his subject. (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: Thank you. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: You're very welcome. (Laughter.) And please know that the welcome mat is always down for you here at the National Press Club. (Laughter and applause.) MR. FRANKEN: Thank you. Thank you, John, and thank you for that bit (?) Bob and Ray. Okay. Here's what I can tell you about predatory lending. First of all, it has increased tremendously over the last several years. Very often these are refinancing years. What happens is unscrupulous lenders will target a neighborhood, find uneducated, unsophisticated people and mislead them -- people like Clarence Page -- (laughter). For example, a guy in a suit will go to a neighborhood. He'll look for like an unrepaired roof, knock on the door. "Ma'am, I've noticed that your roof needs fixing. How about we refinance your mortgage, and I can give you some cash to fix your roof." The woman refinances her mortgage. Now, the problem is, this is a predatory loan. There'll be all kinds of hidden fees, prepayment penalties, which will prevent her from ever refinancing again, balloon payments, and very often -- this is very often -- built-in rate increases, so the mortgage goes up -- the payments go up in a year. Now, all of this will be buried in the fine print, and often borrowers end up not being able to make their payments and end up losing their homes or their businesses. It's theft. Now, don't get me wrong. Many sub-prime lenders are doing a real service. They're doing exactly what we want -- lending to people who couldn't borrow money to buy a home or start a business. It's the predators that we want to get rid of it. Now, the NCRC is supporting the Community Reinvestment Modernization Act of 2001, or H.R. 865, which has 35 sponsors in the House, and which would extend CRA to all lending institutions, and specifically address predatory lending. All the sponsors are Democrats except one -- Vermont Socialist Bernie Sanders. (Laughter.) However, part of the news today is that the NRC (sic) is releasing a poll conducted by a bipartisan team of the attractive Democratic pollster Jennifer Lazli (sic) -- Lazlo -- sorry -- Jennifer Lazlo (sp) Mesrahai (sp) and Frank Luntz (sp), the nut case conservative Republican pollster -- (laughter) -- showing that Americans overwhelming -- overwhelmingly believe that there is discrimination and widespread abuse in lending, which doesn't prove that it exists, just that everyone believes it does -- (laughter) -- but more importantly that more than 80 percent of Americans want the federal government to play an increased role in making sure that predatory lending is stopped. As I think we've seen over the past few months with Enron, there may be room for more regulatory oversight -- (laughter) -- of sleazy businessmen. By the way -- and this is just my opinion, not that of the NCRC, but Fred Skilling should go to prison, right? (Laughter.) I mean, you know -- (laughter and applause) -- I mean, you know, after he's proven guilty in a court of law. (Laughter.) But, I mean, and this shouldn't be like a fake prison, like Allenwood or something -- he should go to a real prison, you know, the kind of prison where after the guys come out and you ask them, How was prison? -- they say, "I don't want to talk about it." (Laughter.) I'm talking about creating an incentive for these guys not to do this anymore. Well, anyway, this brings me just as a transition to part of the speech that is not about predatory lending, and which will no doubt make the NCRC regret having me speak on their half. The rest of the speech is just me. A few things I'd like to speak about -- the war, which I think everybody supports. I went on a USO tour in October to Germany, Bosnia and Kosovo -- everyone of course since 9-11 has been caught up in this patriotic fervor -- even people you wouldn't expect. A friend of mine -- wouldn't expect it -- immediately went to his closet, got out his old America T-shirt -- it took him about four hours to wipe out "sucks" -- (laughter) -- but the president I think has done a very good job on the war. Language is still not his strong point. "Evildoers." That's an awkward word, I mean. What I thought was funny is that after he started calling them evildoers, the rest of the administration you could see decided that they would start using "evildoers" too, to make it sound like it's a word. Ari Fleischer uses "evildoers" often. He's shameless. But watch when Vice President Cheney drops it in. It will be something like, "This war is not about fighting Islam. It's about eradicating the evildoers." (Laughter.) Comedians in the wake of 9-11 were presented with a big problem, which is when would it be safe to laugh again, and then who could we -- at whose expense. Thank God for Jerry Falwell -- (laughter) -- and Pat Robertson. A couple days after 9-11, you remember that Falwell went on the 700 Club and sort of blamed 9-11 on a lot of folks in the United States -- basically gays and liberals and such. And he said he was quoted out of context. So, as a service, I actually went to -- got the exact quote from the 700 Club, and would like to read it from you -- for you. Here's the quote: "I really believe that the pagans, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternate lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say 'You helped this happen.' And Pat Robertson said, "I totally concur." (Laughter.) Now, the only way I can figure if this was -- if he was taken out of context if that right immediately before he had said, "I would have to be friggin' nuts to say" -- (laughter) -- that's all I can figure -- and they just left that out. (Laughter.) And the thing about it is that he is nuts. He and Robertson are nuts. I'll give you some proof. In the beginning of 1999, when all the millennium fervor was starting, Jerry Falwell felt it was important enough to announce that the anti-Christ was alive and is a male Jew. Now, as a male Jew I was, you know, curious -- (laughter) -- who exactly it was -- because I knew it wasn't me, you know. (Laughter.) So, fortunately, a few months later I was on the Geraldo Rivera show with the Reverend Falwell -- we weren't talking about whether the anti-Christ was alive or not, but a different subject -- but I couldn't help myself, and I said, "Reverend Falwell, you said a couple of months ago that the anti-Christ is alive and is a male Jew. Is that true?" And he said, "Yes." And he explained that since Christ was a male Jew the anti-Christ would also have to be a male Jew, and I said, "Of course." (Laughter.) I said -- but I said, "But I want to know who it is. I have a theory," I told him. I said, "I think it's Marvin Hamlisch." (Laughter.) "Is it Marvin Hamlisch?" And he -- he said he didn't know. Pat Robertson -- I don't know how many of you ever watch the 700 Club. I still watch it just to keep up. (Laughter.) And he still does faith-healing on the 700 Club, and you'll hear things like, "There's a woman in Ohio who has just been cured of her diverticulitis. Praise God." And I don't think Pat Robertson thinks through what he is saying. Let's say -- you know -- you know that there is more than one woman in Ohio with diverticulitis. So let's say you're a woman in Dayton, and you have diverticulitis, and you are watching the 700 Club, and you hear Pat Robertson say, "There's a woman in Ohio who has just been cured of diverticulitis -- Praise God." So you think it's you, but it's not -- but you think it's you, so you eat a bowl of nuts. (Laughter.) And you die. But the woman who was cured lives in Cincinnati. You see, I don't think Pat Robertson thinks through what he's saying. I mean, if God can tell him there is a woman in Ohio and she has been cured of diverticulitis, why can't God tell Pat Robertson her name? (Laughter.) I don't get it. I'm a -- I am very pro this effort to fight terrorism, more than you might suspect. The president, when this started, said that we're going to have to use every tool at our disposal -- obviously military, but intelligence, economic, diplomatic. Here's a tool that I actually think we should consider keeping on the table -- torture. I'm talking about the detainees. We have like 300 detainees -- not all the detainees, by the way -- just like the guy who has an apartment in Paterson, New Jersey, and who was inquiring about crop-dusting. (Laughter.) That guy knows something -- right? (Laughter.) Now, you know that he's willing to die for this perverse cause. My question is: Is he willing to take a red-hot poker up the butt for it? This is not, by the way, the NCRC policy. (Laughter.) You know he wants to service the 72 virgins in paradise. Does he think he can do that after we have crushed his testicles? That's just -- Anyway, back to predatory lending -- (laughter) -- now, and I have got to tell you that I love our military -- I have done USO tours for the last three years -- love these guys. Afghanistan shows that bombing works. I have some figures here. We did over 24,000 sorties in Afghanistan, dropped over 150,000 tons of ordnance, and did $39 in damage. The Taliban -- the Taliban is a very different type of military than ours -- some things in common. Neither we nor the Taliban allow women in combat. The Taliban take it a step further. They don't allow women to go outside, or to look up, or to hum. Not a lot of credibility with the Taliban. But do you remember right after September 11th Jesse Jackson said that the Taliban had called him and asked him to go to Afghanistan to broker a peace, and the Taliban were asked about this, and they said they had never heard of Jesse Jackson. And then they asked Jackson again, and Jackson said, No, they have called me. And it was interesting because a vast majority of Americans believed the Taliban. (Laughter.) So you know your credibility is in rough shape. But one last thing before -- and it's about the military, our military. It's really a miracle what it's done in this war. I mean, considering that during the 2000 campaign Bush was telling us that our military was at its lowest state of readiness since Pearl Harbor. And I don't think this administration gets enough credit for taking this "hollowed-out" military -- Cheney called it during the debates -- and turning it around in a manner of months -- (laughter) -- into the most awesome military force that has existed in the history of man. And Rumsfeld must be a genius, because he did this really with just -- I don't know what -- some baling wire and some string or something, I mean. And so I think it speaks very well of the president and the vice president and Rumsfeld that they don't bring this up, that they don't remind people of the sad state of our military when they inherited it from Clinton. So that's -- I just had to get that in there, because I think it speaks so well of them. Well, let's open it up for questions, shall we, John? Thank you. (Applause.) MR. AUBUCHON: Al, you have just really set the scene for next Tuesday's address by Dr. Kissinger -- (laughter) -- and I was hoping that you might have some questions that you would like us to ask him. MR. FRANKEN: (In Kissinger voice.) Well, I just want to ask him if -- what he thinks of my impression. (Laughter.) Please ask him that. Say, Who does the best impression of you? But I don't know -- but the main thing about doing Kissinger is that the man does not breathe. (Laughter.) Whenever you're doing an impression of him you have to get very close to the microphone, because the man does not breathe. The man doesn't breathe. (Applause.) MR. AUBUCHON: You talked about plumbing the depths of the candidate's knowledge of predatory lending on the campaign trail. Well, 13 months into his administration, has George W. Bush shown any sign that he has learned anything about the CRA, Community Reinvestment in general, and shown any interest in the issue in the administration? MR. FRANKEN: Well, I mean, I think he'd say he has bigger fish to fry, and so probably not. I would -- he hasn't shown a lot of interest in anything other than this huge manner of terrorism. And to some extent I think he has a little bit overpersonalized that. I mean, it seems to be his -- we keep hearing it's his mission. He's the president, and he's supposed to lead us during this crisis, and I think he's done a good job of it. I think that on issues of economic justice he's right where he was, which is I don't ever see him on this -- as it turned out, I did some follow-up from Iowa, and he was totally behind Phil Gramm's position, which is anathema to what I believe. And he -- it doesn't seem like there's been a corporate interest that he's ever stood up to. And so I don't think he's changed on this sort of -- on any kind of economic justice issue. I mean, his tax cut is ridiculous, and we are back in deficit spending. And I think it's pretty clear that, no, he hasn't changed from this kind of thing. MR. AUBUCHON: You, Al, are well known for your advice to presidents and other elected officials. And a couple of events in the news -- steel imports, Enron -- let's take the steelworkers first. They're amassing at the Ellipse, protesting the impact of foreign steel dumping. What advice would you give President Bush on his pending steel decision? MR. FRANKEN: Well, I would suggest his advisors talk to me -- (laughter) -- because I follow the steel import question not at all. So I don't know. I don't know. I think that I -- I don't know. All I k now is that predatory lending is wrong. (Applause.) MR. AUBUCHON: Perhaps you follow the Enron case. Do you have any thoughts about what government should do to prevent a repeat of the Enron scandal? MR. FRANKEN: Yes, I have some thoughts on auditing procedures. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Is that dealing with film? MR. FRANKEN: Yeah. I think it's actually kind of clear some of the things that should happen. I think Wall Street -- having Wall Street analysts up -- yesterday, right? -- was a good idea. It seems like there's a lot of conflict of interests, including having your auditor also be your consultant. And these are things that of course a Republican Congress made sure didn't get passed in the last administration, and I think things that need to get past, which are just making sure the auditors of companies like Enron are independent, and aren't getting consulting contracts so that they can actually disclose real information. I also think it's important for Wall Street analysts not to have conflict of interests. And I also -- actually what I said about these guys going to real prison is an actual, actual suggestion of mine, which is I don't understand why you send someone who did drugs to a prison that's a real prison, and don't send somebody who has ripped off hundreds of thousands of people for their own enrichment. (Applause.) And not -- and this is not about punishing them. This is not about being vindictive. This is about creating an incentive for white guys who run companies to go like, "Hmm, eww, yeah, nah -- nah, I'm not going to do this. I know chances are I'll make -- get away with it and get millions of dollars, and rip people off -- that's good -- (laughter) -- but if I get caught, it isn't like I'm going to go to Allenwood for a year and then come away with $60 million." I think it's something really that should be considered, and I think that members of Congress should consider sort of making a special white-collar crime law that sends these guys to what I like to call real prison. (Applause.) MR. AUBUCHON: Also in the news recently campaign finance reform. It might actually become law. When you were on "Saturday Night Live," you constantly asked us to send money "to me, Al Franken" -- right? Remember that? MR. FRANKEN: Sort of, sort of. MR. AUBUCHON: What happened to all that money? (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: The NCRC is fighting for sunshine laws -- (laughter) -- disclosing who wins money, and this would not come under that. (Laughter.) This is not part of the disclosure act that I actually support. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Your career puts you in the air a lot, has you flying a lot recently, and you've noticed some changes in air travel since September 11th. What do you make of them? MR. FRANKEN: Well, there are -- listen, I'm happy to be delayed, and I think it's -- I like all the security that you can get, and I get to the airport way ahead of time. I don't understand the reluctance to profile young Arab men. I know this might be controversial. The way I look at it is if it had been 19 Jewish comedians on September 11th who had done that, and they -- and I'm in an airport, and I'm in line to get on the plane, and they go, "MR. FRANKEN, we need to talk to you -- you are a Jewish comedian." I'd say, "Thank you -- please check my butt," you know -- (laughter) -- "and while you're at it, will you check Mr. Seinfeld's?" So, and I have been traveling a lot, and I do meet young Arab men who say, "Yeah, you know, sure -- I feel better." So I don't understand why a 30-year-old mother with two kids in a stroller are put through the kind of delays, and people who sort of fit -- I hate to say it -- the profiler of a hijacker aren't necessarily randomly pulled over. And that may be controversial, but I think it's kind of common sense. MR. AUBUCHON: You mentioned Seinfeld. Let's use that as a -- MR. FRANKEN: A very popular position. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Let's use Seinfeld as a jumping-off point for the next question. He used to watch Abbott and Costello and drew from them. You drew from Bob and Ray today. Who else did you watch for inspiration in your comedic aspirations? MR. FRANKEN: Jack Benny, Woody Allen, Laurel and Hardy. But I tend to like guys who are a little dry. And the bit that we did -- you and I did -- and you were -- wasn't John great? (Applause.) And he didn't ask me to say that. (Laughter.) That was a straight Bob and Ray bit, and they are sort of my heroes. So Bob and Ray are -- and I know there are people watching who don't know who Bob and Ray are, but they were two radio comics, that I actually didn't grow up listening to, because I grew up in Minnesota and they were in New York, but I have absorbed all the Bob and Ray I can, and they are my heroes. MR. AUBUCHON: Well, as a native Minnesotan, do you do Jesse Ventura? MR. FRANKEN: By "do I do him" -- (laughter) -- I do an impression of that is what you mean? (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Yes, yes. MR. FRANKEN: I haven't done him -- let me see. Um, he -- (switches to Jesse Ventura voice) -- he, you know, he's got a combination of Minnesota and wrestler. (Laughter.) He was asked by Playboy in his interview a couple -- one of -- the last question he was asked was, "If you are reincarnated, what would you like to come back as?" And he said, "A 38-double-D bra." (Laughter.) So we Minnesotans are so proud of our governor. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Well, style aside -- MR. FRANKEN: Yeah. MR. AUBUCHON: -- how has he been as a governor? Should he run for president? MR. FRANKEN: Well, listen, I don't live in Minnesota anymore, and I guess he's got a pretty high approval rating. I'm not a big fan. I don't like it when governors make money off their celebrity being governor, you know, and he's done everything from refereeing wrestling matches and getting paid exorbitantly for that, and putting out action figures which actually George Pataki tried to do. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: They didn't -- MR. FRANKEN: No, no. But, you know, I don't think -- it's going to be interesting, because when he was first elected, Minnesota was running a big surplus, and I think Minnesotans thought like, Well, how hard can it be, you know, to be governor -- with, you know, Minnesota had like a 2 percent unemployment rate, and was just awash in money. I'm not even sure I'm playing close enough attention whether he's running for reelection or not, but it might be a little hard -- I think it's a little harder to be governor of a state now than it was when he was elected. MR. AUBUCHON: You know, you showed us your Jesse Venture, Henry Kissinger -- MR. FRANKEN: I'm amazing, aren't I? MR. AUBUCHON: I think we talked in the introduction about some of your others. But who's the easiest person you ever did an impression of in your SNL days? Who was the easiest? MR. FRANKEN: I have this odd thing which is I do a certain small set of impressions. I'm not someone like Daryl Hammond or Dana Carvey, who can do like an incredible number of impressions. So I've only done maybe, you know, a handful. Strom Thurmond is fun to do, because he has that cracker accent that doesn't really exist in America anymore -- (laughter) -- because it's died out. (Laughter.) And I loved during the Anita Hill hearings when he couldn't hear her, and he was saying, "Are you talking (in the machine?" (Laughter.) Talk in the machine, I can't hear you -- talk in the machine." (Laughter.) He -- I think he's going to make it. (Laughter.) You know, Norm Ornstein, a friend of mine who is the resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, believes the Republicans may be pulling a "Weekend at Bernie's" kind of thing -- (laughter) -- with Strom. You know, I don't know if that's true. Paul Tsongas was an odd one to do. I remember Dana Carvey wanted to do Paul Tsongas. I used to write a lot of the political stuff on the show. And we had a two-week break, and I sort of went off and said, "Okay, what's Tsongas about?" And I started doing him. I came back and I said, "Dana, can I do him?" And Tsongas was kind of a cross between -- he was Snagglepuss with, like, a New England accent. So it was like -- (imitates Paul Tsongas). So he was a fun guy to do. (Laughter.) And Paul Simon probably was the easiest because Paul, who I love, has my timber. So he had the -- and spoke -- very -- deliberately -- and was from southern Illinois. And God bless him. We were just -- Clarence and I were just talking about how my impression really harmed him. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Is being funny a serious business? Does it have its serious side? Do you have to -- obviously it takes some work. MR. FRANKEN: No. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: It just flows out. MR. FRANKEN: It's just -- this business of comedy is just all fun. (Laughter.) Everyone in the entertainment business is very nice -- (laughter) -- extremely, extremely ethical. (Laughter.) Their word is their bond. I don't think I've ever had a stressful moment. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: I'm reading this, now. This is not my question. MR. FRANKEN: Okay. You wrote this. MR. AUBUCHON: No. "Like most of America, I am familiar with your torrid affair with Jeane Kirkpatrick. Anything to the rumors about you and Gale Norton?" (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: Okay, this is in reference to my book, "Rush Limbaugh Is a Big Fat Idiot." And the book begins with a fictional book review by Jeane Kirkpatrick in which she slams the book. And then it's followed by a letter to the editor of the New York Times Book Review in which I complained because I had understood that it was the policy of the New York Times Book Review not to allow former lovers to review books. (Laughter.) And I heard later from Bob Dornan -- (laughter) -- that -- he was -- oh, and I know what happened. And in the book, I say that -- I do a joke, which is, "Having Ross Perot head up an ethics" -- no, no, I know what it was -- "Having Al D'Amato head up an ethics committee is like having Ross Perot head up a mental health task force." (Laughter.) And so I have heard that -- I cite that in her review. And then, in the review itself, it says, "But later in the book, he says that having Al D'Amato head up an ethics investigation is like having Bob Dornan head up a mental health task force." And in her review she goes, "Which is it, Bob Dornan or Ross Perot?" So then -- so Bob Dornan got sent a copy of this, Xeroxed, and saying, "Look what Jeane Kirkpatrick is saying about you," because in it she says, "Bob Dornan is nuts, but which is it?" And so at the '96 Republican convention he gets seated in the visitors' gallery, in the distinguished visitors' gallery -- Bob Dornan. (Laughter.) Anyway, and he's seated next to Jeane Kirkpatrick, and he goes, "Jeane, why did you say I was nuts?" (Laughter.) She goes, "I didn't! I didn't! That was a fake. That was in his book and it was fake. And he said he and I were lovers." (Laughter.) So I ran into Jeane a few months later and apologized, and she at that point said that she understood that it was a joke. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: Now, we're at the time of the political season -- what, more than a couple of years out, but beginning to evaluate candidates for the next election. I know that comedians have some of the same criteria that we who cover politics do. MR. FRANKEN: Sure. MR. AUBUCHON: So a crucial question: In your evaluation, who has better hair, John Edwards or John Kerry? (Laughter.) MR. FRANKEN: Oh, John Kerry. (Laughter.) MR. AUBUCHON: We have time for one more question, but -- (laughter) -- but first, I would like to present you with this certificate of appreciation for your appearance here today. Thank you so much. MR. FRANKEN: No cup? Do you have a cup? (Laughter/applause.) MR. AUBUCHON: And this will look very, very good by your Grammys -- MR. FRANKEN: Oh, well, thank you. MR. AUBUCHON: -- and Emmys. MR. FRANKEN: Thank you very much. This is -- MR. AUBUCHON: The coveted National Press Club mug. MR. FRANKEN: That's why I came. (Laughter.) And now I have two. You know, I have other ones. MR. AUBUCHON: Yes. MR. FRANKEN: Exciting. MR. AUBUCHON: You can have both -- MR. FRANKEN: Can I make an announcement, John? MR. AUBUCHON: Sure, sure. MR. FRANKEN: Is that okay? MR. AUBUCHON: Sure. MR. FRANKEN: I guess, after a brief five-minute break, there will be an interactive session, substantive discussion about predatory lending. So especially those of you in the press who are actually interested can -- and this is going to be between bankers and regulators and community groups. And I'm urging whoever would like to to stay. And I'll stay and I'll be there, and you can harass me too. MR. AUBUCHON: And finally, in the '80s you said it was the Al Franken decade. Well, the '90s then was the Joe Franken decade. So what decade are we in now? MR. FRANKEN: Okay, we are in the Al Franken millennium. (Laughter.) So this interactive session will be after -- and be sure, Tuesday, Dr. Kissinger. MR. AUBUCHON: Before leaving for the interactive session, do you do an impression of George W. Bush? MR. FRANKEN: I don't. I can't do him. I'm not -- but thanks for asking. (Laughter.) I don't. "Evildoers." (Laughter.) That's the best I can do. MR. AUBUCHON: Ladies and gentlemen, Al Franken. (Applause.) And I'd like to thank you all for coming today. I'd like to thank National Press Club staff members Melinda Cooke, Pat Nelson, Jo Ann Booze, Melanie Abdow Dermott and Howard Rothman for organizing today's lunch. And thanks to the National Press Club library for their research. Good day. (Applause.)