FOX THE EDGE WITH PAULA ZAHN, April 18, 2000, Tuesday

ZAHN: Welcome back to THE EDGE. Are you ready for this next story? When ABC sacked Boomer Esiason from the broadcast booth a few months back, names started to surface as to whom would replace him. Well, an unlikely candidate has come forward, and it appears he really wants the job. His name is Rush Limbaugh. Rush doesn't know what his chances are. But an ABC official says they have not ruled anybody out. Is Rush qualified for the job? And should ABC take a chance and give him a shot? Get ready for an EDGE face-off. I'm joined from Washington by Bob Lichter, president of the Center for Media and Public Affairs and author of "Peep Show: Media and Politics in an Age of Scandal." And here in New York, the author of "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot," comedian Al Franken. And New York "Newsday" columnist Ellis Henican. football fan.

AL FRANKEN, COMEDIAN, AUTHOR, "RUSH LIMBAUGH IS A BIG FAT IDIOT": So am I.

ZAHN: Yeah. And how would you do?

FRANKEN: I probably wouldn't be very - I never actually played football... ZAHN: Well, Rush did.

FRANKEN: ... in pro. He did. He played in high school. In fact, one of his number of excuses for not being in the draft was that he had a knee in jury from high school football. But that wasn't true.

ZAHN: But he went on to do some marketing for the Royals.

FRANKEN: Yes. Which is a baseball team.

ZAHN: Yeah. He's a sports guy.

FRANKEN: Which is a sport. It's a sport. That's good. If ABC I guess is having DiCaprio do Earth Day stuff, I guess Rush is perfectly qualified. No, no...

ZAHN: But seriously, he's a broadcaster. He brings with him 580 stations. Millions and millions of listeners come to hear what he has to say every day. He could promote his performance. None of that works for you?

FRANKEN: No, it's a good deal for him. And the thing about the knee injury as one of his excuses for not going to Vietnam and not being in the military is actually to the point that he is not the most truthful person, which I think - I don't care if he's - I have a lot of conservative But I think that if you read my book, "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot," you'd know exactly how much he lies and distorts. And I think that's probably what ABC shouldn't be going for. (LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: Aren't we talking about a color job on TV? We're not talking about someone espousing political views on this show.

ELLIS HENICAN, COLUMNIST, "NEWSDAY": You know my rule is that when you're replacing a guy named Boomer, the standards of truth-telling and serious analysis are not that high.

FRANKEN: Boomer was a hell of a quarterback.

HENICAN: He was a wonderful quarterback. But his name is Boomer. I mean, come on. The thing that I like about him, I admire the man for going onto radio, or in this case television, and using that as a vehicle to apply for a job. In the same spirit, I'm going to make myself available today to direct the New York Philharmonic. I've listened to music before. I love music. And you know, I've always wanted to do that thing with the - if I can do that, can't Rush do football?

ZAHN: Bob Lichter, are you that cynical about this? I have to tell you, he was on our show about five months ago. And one of the things we agreed to do was keep the Monday Night Football game on the air in the studio so he could glance at the score as it was going on. He has a real passion for the game. Bob?

ROBERT LICHTER, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR MEDIA AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, AUTHOR, "PEEP SHOW: MEDIA AND POLITICS IN AN AGE OF SCANDAL": Well, I think everybody should lighten up a little bit. Monday Night Football is not about politics. It's not even about football so much as it's about show biz.

You've got a guy who is colorful, controversial, abrasive, witty, infuriating. There hasn't been anybody like him doing color commentary of football since Howard Cosell.



ZAHN: What about that? Howard Cosell walked into his job with just about as much football experience as Rush Limbaugh.

FRANKEN: No, that's not true. Howard Cosell had been a sportscaster all his life. Howard Cosell, if you know anything about Howard Cosell, which I guess Bob doesn't, is that he railed against people doing sports who didn't know about sports. He actually railed against athletes like Boomer Esiason, who was by the way a very good quarterback who had to read defenses all the time. It's a big difference between that. And his name is Boomer, but that means nothing. (LAUGHTER)

FRANKEN: The point is that Cosell, who was one of the great sportscasters, felt that it was a profession and felt that it was - you know, I'm a sports fan. And I want to hear somebody who knows something about the game.

HENICAN: But let's not kid ourselves. This is not some great cathedral of the culture. I mean, it's a football game on television. And mostly what we've had in these jobs, Al, you know are sort of decent-looking and not-so-decent-looking ex-jocks, some of whom can string a sentence together. I mean, this is not exactly the pinnacle of intellectual life in America. My God.

FRANKEN: No, no, no, but as I happen to be a football fan...

HENICAN: But it's not religion...

FRANKEN: ... No, not at all. It is entertainment...

HENICAN: ... It's football.

FRANKEN: ... Yeah, we're in agreement on that...

HENICAN: OK.

ZAHN: But you want a broadcaster sitting in that seat. You want someone who could make a simple declarative sentence...

FRANKEN: I want someone who can tell me something about...

ZAHN: ... and tell you what happened on the field and know...

FRANKEN: ... Yeah, I mean...

ZAHN: ... the difference between a football team and a baseball team. And the Royals, they're a baseball team, right? So glad you educated me.

FRANKEN: ... Well, I know Rush knows the difference. And I know the difference...

ZAHN: Well, I didn't.

FRANKEN: ... I can - well... (LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: Thanks for your help tonight. You can save me on the other side of the break...

FRANKEN: I could probably use the - I could probably use the telustrator (ph) as well as anybody. But I don't know enough to be the color man.

ZAHN: I'm a big baseball fan. Sorry about my inefficiency.

HENICAN: X's and O's, that's what it's all about.

ZAHN: Yeah, x and o's. More with Al and Bob and Ellis in just a moment. A little bit later on, after 10 years, "Beverly Hills 90210" is still going - or is going off the air. Jennie Garth will share some of the show's secrets her boss, Aaron Spelling, probably doesn't want you to know. And Eartha Kitt is having a wild party, and you're invited. It's all ahead on THE EDGE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ABC doesn't know whether Leo and I had an interview, a walk-through, or a drive-by.

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: But I don't know if all their damage control is worth the effort. I mean, it's a little bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the set of "This Week with Sam and Cokie (ph)."

(LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: All right, we continue to face-off over whether Rush Limbaugh should host Monday Night Football or not. And Al Franken, Bob Lichter, and Ellis Henican explain to me what that has to do with Leo and the president. Now that is a the way - a thread I would weave through here is that ABC has been beaten up over some of the decisions that have been made in the news division.

FRANKEN: Right.

ZAHN: This has nothing to do with news. If they hire Rush Limbaugh, they would be putting a broadcaster in the seat that could bring in a lot of viewers. No? Or do you think ABC has a real problem here...

FRANKEN: I'll be you - well, I, actually...

ZAHN: ... if they make this move?

FRANKEN: ... I don't know. I actually think that probably a lot of Rush's listeners already watch Monday Night Football. You know, they could - I don't care really. The thing between - about DiCaprio is this is something that I've always said that the wall between news and entertainment has been eaten away like the cartilage in David Crosby's septum. (LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: Ouch.

FRANKEN: Which isn't fair because mainly he free-based.

ZAHN: Woo.

FRANKEN: But the point is still the same. And this would be a little bit more of that erosion, if you will.

ZAHN: Why, though? He wouldn't be sitting there to talk about politics, would he, Bob?

FRANKEN: No, no, no, that's...

ZAHN: No, I'm missing the point... (CROSSTALK)

FRANKEN: ... you're missing my point completely.

ZAHN: ... OK, then explain it to me. Educate me, Al.

FRANKEN: It isn't that I worry that Rush would be there talking about politics. I'm sure he wouldn't. I worry that - I actually as a sports fan - I'm a big sports fan - would want somebody in that chair who knows more about sports than the average fat guy who sits on his couch eating potato chips and drinking beer and watching TV... (LAUGHTER)

ZAHN: But have you seen the guy lately? He's lost a lot of weight. Come on, Al... (CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... You've got to change the title of your book.

FRANKEN: You know what? He has lost a lot of weight, and he has not thanked me. I saved the man's life.

ZAHN: Maybe that... (CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... note will be coming.

HENICAN: Remember that his one television show did not exactly do that well, did it? I mean, sometimes those things don't translate necessarily from radio love into television love.

ZAHN: It did fine in some of the larger markets in the overnights.

HENICAN: Ah...

ZAHN: But what other person can you point to that has 580 stations that carry his show, and you can reach...

HENICAN: Dr. Laura.

ZAHN: ... six million plus...

HENICAN: Dr. Laura.

ZAHN: ... Yeah, that Paramount show might be in some jeopardy.

HENICAN: Maybe she should do the XFL that's getting ready to come on. She would be perfect for that.

ZAHN: Bob, what I want to come back to is a point Al was making. He's a purist. He wants someone that really - an expert talking about football. Is that what the audience demands on Monday Night Football?

LICHTER: I would think Al Franken should be Rush Limbaugh's biggest cheerleader here just as Dana Carvey must be rooting to have another Bush in the White House. I mean, his book is going to go into new editions. He'll have new targets. And frankly, you go back to Howard Cosell, who was a great boxing expert, but was a television personality as a football announcer, and that's what this is about. This is about buzz. This is about creating friction, getting some extra dimension beyond football in the booth, which was always the goal of Monday Night Football. I do not think that you need somebody who does X and O's. You've got a great announcer on there right now. You need somebody to stir things up and get people talking. And I think this show is an example of just what strong emotions Rush Limbaugh brings into this. I think...

ZAHN: Al, you get the final word. And then you get three seconds, Ellis. Go, Al.

FRANKEN: I'm just - it's true. If he was on the show, it would help my book. But I'm a selfless sports fan.

(LAUGHTER)



ZAHN: All right.

HENICAN: You know what, you don't need to know very much to go on television. This group might even prove it.

LICHTER: Lucky for us.

ZAHN: OK, we're safe now. All right, gentlemen. Thank you all for being with us tonight. Good to have you all here. Coming up, the wild and wonderful Eartha Kitt saunters into the studio. And the gang from "Beverly Hills 90210" gets ready to close up shop. Actress Jennie Garth takes us behind the scenes with a sneak preview of what's to come. We'll be right back.